Brown and Black Democratic Forum

Brown and Black Forum, Des Moines, Iowa 12/01/07

http://www.hd.net/brownandblack.html

Michelle Norris: (1:24:57). This question is for Senator Clinton. A large percentage of Americans support normalizing relations with Cuba and
loosening travel restrictions. What would you do as president with regard to normalizing relations, ending the trade embargo, opening the door to travel and to diplomatic relations with Cuba?

Hillary Clinton: (1:25:22) Well I think we are going to have that opportunity because I believe that when Fidel Castro finally does pass on, there will be a tremendous pent up desire on the part of the Cuban people for freedom and for democracy. Certainly if they were to make steps right now to recognize human rights, to release political prisoners, there could be perhaps some reciprocal action taken by the United States but until there is some recognition on the part of whoever is in charge of the Cuban government that they have to move towards democracy and freedom for the Cuban people, it will be very difficult for us to change our policy. But I look forward as president to perhaps being there when that opportunity arises.

You know it’s tragic that in the last seven years we’ve lost ground in Latin America. We’ve lost it as more and more countries have moved away
from democracy [toward] authoritarian even dictatorial rule. We see what’s happening in Venezuela with the big power grab going on by Chavez and I hope that when I’m president we can get re-engaged and we pay more attention to Latin America and we start building relationships again. I think that’s important for us and important for the people of those countries.

MN: (1:26:44) Thank you; just a very quick follow-up. You said that the US may have soon an opportunity, but Fidel Castro is very strong. And if he does last into 2008, in January of 2009 and beyond, would you normalize relations with Cuba.

HC: (1:27:01) No. Not unless he made, or whoever was then the head of government in Cuba made, significant changes in the way that they treated their own people and I think that has to be a precondition.

MN: (1:27:16) Thank you very much Senator. Senator Dodd very quickly? Very
quickly.

Chris Dodd: (1:27:20) I served in the Peace Corps in the Dominican Republic and spent a lot time on Latin American issues and chaired the [sub]committee of the Foreign Relations Committee for the last 26 years dealing with Latin American. I think we are making a huge mistake by not normalizing relations with Cuba. The only one who is benefiting from this in my view, the only one who has benefited is Fidel Castro. This is outrageous in my view. If you want to create change in the country as we did with the eastern block countries, this is the way, is to allow travel to occur. This is the only country in the world where Americans are not allowed to travel there because our country forbids them from going there. That is how you create change in these countries. This embargo has done nothing but keep Fidel Castro in power. I think we ought to abandon
the embargo, open up travel restrictions and he’ll create change immediately in my view of Cuba.

MN: (1:28:08) Very quickly for the sake of fairness another very quick yes no
question. Normalize relations with Cuba just down the line, starting with you.

John Edwards: (1:28:18) Without respect to what’s happening with Castro.

MN: (1:28:22) Irregardless.

JE: (1:28:23) No. Not unless and until something has happened with Castro.

MN: (1:28:28) Representative Kucinich?

Dennis Kucinich: (1:28:29) Yes.

MN: (1:28:30) Senator Biden?

Joe Biden: (1:38:31) We have to reach out to the Cuban people right now because he’s not going to last no matter what you say and the bottom line is we have to have a plan. There is no plan. Chris is right. You’ve got to normalize relations with them eventually and it seems to me that’s going to come very quickly.

MN: (1:28:43) Normalize relations whether or not Fidel Castro is in power?

JB: (1:28:47) Not as long as he in fact has his human rights policy but you’ve got to compete with it.

MN: (1:28:51) Thank you. Senator Obama?

Barack Obama: (1:28:52) No, but there are two things we can do right now to prepare for that. And that is loosen travel restrictions for family members, Cuban Americans who want to visit and open up remittances so that they are able to support family members, many of them who are fighting for their liberty in Cuba right now.

MN: (1:29:10) But for right now?

BO: (1:29:12) I would not normalize relations but those two things, those two shifts in policy would send a signal that we can build on once Castro is out of power.

MN: (1:29:20) Very quickly Governor Richardson?

Bill Richardson: (1:29:22) Michelle as the only brown member in this debate, is there any chance we could have civil rights equity and have the brown guy get a little more time?

MN: (1:29:34) When you put it like that.

BR: (1:29:42) This is what I, Cuba. You always want to get something in return. The embargo has not worked. In return for lifting the embargo, there have to be some democratic reforms, release of political prisoners in Cuba. But we should stop preventing Cuban Americans from going back and forth with family visits. We should in addition to that permit remittances that are not taking place.

But most importantly we should send a signal to Latin America, as we should to Africa that we care about the third world. That we care about problems that relate to the relationship with our southern hemisphere. That we care deeply about the fact that Hugo Chavez has more influence than we do because we are not paying enough attention to the region. That we need creative trade relations that we need renewable energy ties with Latin America. That we also need to make sure that we resolve the immigration issue, which effects not just Mexico but Central American and the Caribbean and the whole hemisphere.

(Slightly edited for clarity and consistency from on line transcript.)

Univision Debate: Clinton, Dodd, Gravel, Richardson on Cuba

Following are Cuba related excerpts from the transcript of the Univision debate yesterday.

The audience reaction that is indicated is interesting but someone who is on the spot or watched it needs to comment about whether the audience was more favorable to Senator Clinton's echo of President Bush or the pro-normalization sentiments of Senator Dodd and former Senator Gravel.

Clinton seems to want it both ways. 'the Cuban people deserve freedom and democracy and we're all hopeful that that can be brought about peacefully' vs. 'Look at what we face today because of the misguided, bullying policies of this president. So let's reverse it and get ready for freedom in Cuba!' Was she referring to Bush bullying Chavez or Cuba? What else is her veiled prediction/threat of unpeaceful change than the same kind of bullying? (When will a journalist have the smarts to ask why her position on family and purposeful travel is Bush's rather than her husband's poliicy?)

Richardson was disappointing and Dodd again set the standard for a rational policy. Obama was not asked about his position which makes one wonder what Univision's agenda was.

http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2007/09/09/23/English_transcript.source.prod_affiliate.56.pdfGOV.

RICHARDSON: Well, what I would do is -- for one, I would pay attention to Latin America if I'm president. This president does not.Number two, we've got to fix the immigration issue. That is centralnot just to Mexico but Central America.Number three, we've got to deal with the Cuba issue. What we needthere is possibly start lifting the embargo but only -- (applause) -- afterFidel Castro releases political prisoners and their democratic freedoms.

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Senator Gravel, the same question. Do you consider Hugo Chavez adictator? Would you break relations with him?

MR. GRAVEL: No, not at all. In fact, I would reach out to him. Do weforget that on a weekend our CIA tried to depose him? Do we forget that? And of course -- so, is he an enemy? No, he's not an enemy. We've created him as an enemy. We're doing the same thing with Iran. What's the difference if Chavez deals with Iran? We hope that a lot of countries begin to interchange their leadership and begin to think about the globe as one entity. There's nothing wrong.The same thing with Fidel Castro. Why can't we recognize Cuba? Why --what's the big deal, after 25 years -- (applause) -- that these people 125 miles from this country are discriminated against? It makes no sense at all. We need to open up our arms to all nations and treat them as friends,not start looking for enemies. (Applause.)

*********************
This is the chance to speak about Cuba now. Senator Clinton, what dothink would happen in Cuba without Fidel Castro? And what role would theU.S. play after his death or in that transition?

SEN. CLINTON: Well, the Cuban people deserve freedom and democracy,and we're all hopeful that that can be brought about peacefully. It appears as though the reign of Castro is reaching an end. We don't know what will follow Fidel Castro, but we need to do everything we can to work with our friends in Latin America who are democratic nations, with the Europeans and others, to try to bring about a peaceful transition to democracy and freedom for the Cuban people.Now, that requires that we work with the entire hemisphere. You know,in 1994 I remember being here in Miami when my husband hosted the Summit of the Americas.At that time, there was only one anti-democratic, anti-American leaderin the hemisphere, namely Castro. Look at what we face today because of themisguided, bullying policies of this president. So let's reverse it and getready for freedom in Cuba! (Cheers, applause.)

MODERATOR: Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Senator. Senator Dodd, the same question. What would Cuba be like withoutCastro? And what's the role of the United States?

SEN. DODD: Well, a very important one, and the transition is alreadyoccurring, I would suggest to you here. You don't have to wait for it tohappen. The question is whether or not we're going to sit on the sidelines or be a part of this transition here.Certainly what we've done over the last 50 years I don't think hasworked. Fifty years of this policy, of the embargo has basically left the same man in power, the same repressive politics, an economy that's been failing in the country. He has been using that as an excuse for his own failures. As president of the United States, I would begin to unravel that embargo. I would lift travel restrictions, so Cuban Americans can go visit their families. (Cheers, applause.) I would be lifting the restrictions on remissions -- (still get back ?).We need to engage in a constructive and positive way. This is hurting us as well throughout the Americas here. Our ability to engage the rest of this hemisphere is directly related to our ability to engage intelligently in this transition. It takes new, bold leadership to do this. We need to understand that the hopes and aspirations of the Cuban people are as important as anything to us. We need safety and security; we need not fear Fidel Castro. We need to understand it and be part of the transition to make a difference for that country as it is occurring. (Applause.)

How the candidates currently line up on Cuba

Following are capsule summaries of the positions of candidates for President on travel to Cuba from most open to most closed. A link is provided to donate to candidates who have expressed a positive position on travel during the campaign.

Democrats:

Dodd: end the embargo and all restrictions on travel, cosponsor S 721
http://action.chrisdodd.com/my/donate.jsp?supporter_my_donate_page_KEY=132

Kucinich: end the embargo, cosponsor HR 654
[web does not offer personalized donation pages]

Obama: end all restrictions on family travel and remittances
http://my.barackobama.com/page/outreach/view/main/cubadialog

Richardson: favors family travel and remittances, begin lifting embargo if prisoners released
http://action.richardsonforpresident.com/page/outreach/view/raise/Cubatravel

Edwards: favors family travel but not remittances
http://johnedwards.com/action/contribute/mygrassroots/?page_id=Mjg2MTg

Biden: has voted for travel but not on record during campaign

Clinton: has voted for travel but now supports Bush policy with exception only for family emergencies

Republicans:

Paul: has cosponsored HR 654 to end all restrictions on travel , supports end of embargo
[web site does not offer a personalized donation page: read full position here]

All other Republican candidates support the Bush Administration's draconian restrictions on travel.

To support legislation to end all travel restrictions, go to http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Cubatravelbill/